I was coaching at a tournament and one of the matches made me realize I have a Jiu-Jitsu Hot Take, and I thought it'd be interesting to share and ask what everyone else's hot takes are.
My Hot Take:
Wrestlers need to shut up about guard pulling. I actually saw one wrestler score a takedown and literally do nothing else but run away from all his opponents for the rest of the match. It baffles me that the same people who complain about guard pulling will spend the rest of the match running away from his opponent. And I don't mean going side to side and trying to get an angle. I mean literally turning around and running away from the opponent.
If you don't like guard pullers, then how about you just learn how to pass guard, because then it won't be a problem anymore. I mean, dude, you're in a Jiu-Jitsu match. Passing guard is one of the defining characteristics of Jiu-Jitsu. I mean, I don't go to wrestling or judo competitions, pull guard, and then complain that they're forcing me to do all those takedowns. If you just want to do a takedown competition, then just wrestle or do judo.
"I was coaching at a tournament and one of the matches made me realize I have a Jiu-Jitsu Hot Take, and I thought it'd be interesting to share and ask what everyone else's hot takes are. My Hot Take: Wrestlers need to shut up about guard pulling. I actually saw one wrestler score a takedown and literally do nothing else but run away from all his opponents for the rest of the match. It baffles me that the same people who complain about guard pulling will spend the rest of the match running away from his opponent. And I don't mean going side to side and trying to get an angle. I mean literally turning around and running away from the opponent. If you don't like guard pullers, then how about you just learn how to pass guard, because then it won't be a problem anymore. I mean, dude, you're in a Jiu-Jitsu match. Passing guard is one of the defining characteristics of Jiu-Jitsu. I mean, I don't go to wrestling or judo competitions, pull guard, and then complain that they're forcing me to do all those takedowns. If you just want to do a takedown competition, then just wrestle or do judo."
As a wrestler, I completely agree.
When I coach classes I take a very takedown heavy approach, but i always emphasize that you have to pass the guard or your takedown has meant nothing.
If you don't want to pass the guard, go enter a wrestling tournament.
I wouldn't join a hockey team if I couldn't skate just because I want to shoot the puck.
I never understood the hate for guard pulling either. What are you going to do if you've got a good takedown game, but are against someone with exceptional takedown defense? Do you just dance around while accomplishing nothing? Or do you move on to a new technique that has a better chance of working? And as you said, the takedown is of no consequence if you don't do anything with it. Why even award points for it? Instead of 2 points for the takedown and 2 for passing guard (or whatever the reward is for you rule set of choice), why not make it no points for a takedown and 4 points for passing guard.
I'm an ex-college wrestler and a judo black belt, and I will STILL pull guard in BJJ matches. Why wouldn't I? Your standard IBJJF-style ruleset tends to favor the guard player in a battle for points/advantages in most cases. Sometimes I get guys who are better at me on the feet. Why am I wasting my time standing with them? Some guys you don't want pulling guard on you because they will destroy you with it, so you pull first or... even more shamefully... wind up in the dreaded double guard pull situation.
Ultimately though, there needs to be more of a competition-based incentive NOT to pull guard, or else competition BJJ will continue to look like it does. Anybody who doesn't understand this doesn't understand competition BJJ well enough to have an opinion worth listening to :).
Guard pulling is a filthy habit that is beneath the dignity of the Emperor.
Don't get me started on butt scooting, and other signs of possible parasitic infections.
Get a take down for goodness sakes...that's what the fans want to see.
A good ole fashioned, high amplitude takedown.
Or something slick, like an effortless foot sweep.
And also, a bear riding a unicycle, playing an accordion.
Something classy, and not too over the top.
"I was coaching at a tournament and one of the matches made me realize I have a Jiu-Jitsu Hot Take, and I thought it'd be interesting to share and ask what everyone else's hot takes are. My Hot Take: Wrestlers need to shut up about guard pulling. I actually saw one wrestler score a takedown and literally do nothing else but run away from all his opponents for the rest of the match. It baffles me that the same people who complain about guard pulling will spend the rest of the match running away from his opponent. And I don't mean going side to side and trying to get an angle. I mean literally turning around and running away from the opponent. If you don't like guard pullers, then how about you just learn how to pass guard, because then it won't be a problem anymore. I mean, dude, you're in a Jiu-Jitsu match. Passing guard is one of the defining characteristics of Jiu-Jitsu. I mean, I don't go to wrestling or judo competitions, pull guard, and then complain that they're forcing me to do all those takedowns. If you just want to do a takedown competition, then just wrestle or do judo."
Absolutely agree, guard passing is a core skill, not a side quest. Ask Butch or Mike Geery: their Wednesday night class is 100% dedicated to guard passing, and it’s no joke. Intense, technical, and exactly what wrestlers need if they want to stop whining and start winning. As a bonus you’ll sweat, suffer, and maybe even start respecting the guard after a few rounds with the crew. Guard is part of the game, so why not embrace it and get better at both sides of the fight?
Guard is protection hense the name, would we tell an MMA fighter not to protect them selves at all times. Tell a boxer not to use their guard. Tell a goal keeper to just go home.
The problem with BJJ as a sport is its not very fun for others (espically non practioners) to watch so we try to force it to be. Its a losing battle.
"More or less this. I'm an ex-college wrestler and a judo black belt, and I will STILL pull guard in BJJ matches. Why wouldn't I? Your standard IBJJF-style ruleset tends to favor the guard player in a battle for points/advantages in most cases. Sometimes I get guys who are better at me on the feet. Why am I wasting my time standing with them? Some guys you don't want pulling guard on you because they will destroy you with it, so you pull first or... even more shamefully... wind up in the dreaded double guard pull situation. Ultimately though, there needs to be more of a competition-based incentive NOT to pull guard, or else competition BJJ will continue to look like it does. Anybody who doesn't understand this doesn't understand competition BJJ well enough to have an opinion worth listening to :)."
I absolutely agree that a guard pull should not be rewarded with points. But on the other hand, as a judoka, I find a guard pull is an invitation to a guard pass, and I teach all my students how to punish it. I think any school that encourages guard pulls is showing a serious lack of take down skills. Personally I would NEVER intentionally pull guard, however sometimes a failed sacrifice throw ends up looking like a guard pull. It wouldn't score by judo rules, but it still gives me a good triangle attack follow up.
I'd certainly be interested in seeing your guard pull strategy and how you incorporate it with other takedowns. I'd also be curious how you avoid a knee ride pass when you do pull guard.
"Not necessarily. Good takedowns can be set up with the threat of a good guard pull, and a good pull can be set up with the threat of a good takedown. I definitely encourage the option of pulling guard, if it's strategically advantageous to do so. If I know that my opponent is just going to do one thing, it makes them easier to beat."
This!
I spent two weeks showing how to transition open guard with grips to wrestle ups. We can all hit a firemans carry and a double leg from open guard now.
"I'd certainly be interested in seeing your guard pull strategy and how you incorporate it with other takedowns. I'd also be curious how you avoid a knee ride pass when you do pull guard."
I'd be happy to show you one day! I don't really make videos, but if you're super interested, I'd do it for you.
Knee ride pass is one of the most common and effective passes in bjj, so I have tons of ways to deal with it.
If every guard pull could simply be passed with a knee ride, you'd see it more at the high levels. Instead, when you watch the bb division at worlds, for example, the top guys are pulling guard on the top guard passers without getting their guards passed all the time.
I think you're imagining that guard pullers are simply sitting down, and sometimes they are, but if you watch the top guys/girls, you'll notice that is a lot like setting up a throw in judo: they're setting up grips and positions.
I am aware of a high level guard pull which resembles a tomoe nage set up, and I do think that it takes a lot of practice and skill to avoid being pulled into guard with it. What I teach to thwart it is a deflection of the angle which can be either to the inside or the outside depending on the angle of the guard pull and the sleeve pressure (or arm pressure in no gi). If your deflection is on the outside of the blocking leg, you won't get a knee ride pass, but you can usually either avoid the pull entirely, or end up with knee on belly. I will admit that reaction speed is a major factor, and that if you aren't anticipating the guard pull attack, it has a fairly high chance of success. I think like any other counter, it requires LOTS of practice and repetition to learn how to avoid a "black belt" guard pull. I did make a video about thwarting guard pulls. Hopefully some day I'll pay another visit to Asheville or you'll find yourself in Austin and we can workshop, demo and compare our techniques with each other.
My hot take is: It's really hard to do jiu-jitsu against someone who isn’t "playing along."
Jiu-jitsu rules typically encourage ground fighting, but in MMA, where fighters can keep evading a grounded opponent, applying jiu-jitsu becomes much more challenging. You need to develop techniques to bring the fight to the ground without just sitting or jumping to your butt or back. Kron's most recent MMA fight is a great example of this hot take.
"My hot take is: It's really hard to do jiu-jitsu against someone who isn’t "playing along."
Jiu-jitsu rules typically encourage ground fighting, but in MMA, where fighters can keep evading a grounded opponent, applying jiu-jitsu becomes much more challenging. You need to develop techniques to bring the fight to the ground without just sitting or jumping to your butt or back. Kron's most recent MMA fight is a great example of this hot take."
You're not wrong here. When people refuse to engage, it's hard to get anything going. But I think this is a more general Grappling problem. I don't know as much about wrestling in this case, but judo has a similar problem, at least that was my experience.
Part 1: My hot take is that jiu jitsu will never be a spectator sport. Part 2 is no gi leg lock battles are equally as boring as 2 guys refusing to commit to a takedown.
"My hot take is: It's really hard to do jiu-jitsu against someone who isn’t "playing along." Jiu-jitsu rules typically encourage ground fighting, but in MMA, where fighters can keep evading a grounded opponent, applying jiu-jitsu becomes much more challenging. You need to develop techniques to bring the fight to the ground without just sitting or jumping to your butt or back. Kron's most recent MMA fight is a great example of this hot take."
This is perhaps why Mifune Sensei said that atemi waza was often the most effective kuzushi.
And, Carlson Gracie said something similar about belt ranks.
Likewise, Mike Tyson had a knack for making people change their plans.
If one is not occasionally hitting one's training partners in the face, or the liver, or the leg, is one really being a good training partner...?
"You're not wrong here. When people refuse to engage, it's hard to get anything going. But I think this is a more general Grappling problem. I don't know as much about wrestling in this case, but judo has a similar problem, at least that was my experience."
The current rule set severely punishes anyone who doesn't engage.
"I was coaching at a tournament and one of the matches made me realize I have a Jiu-Jitsu Hot Take, and I thought it'd be interesting to share and ask what everyone else's hot takes are.
My Hot Take:
Wrestlers need to shut up about guard pulling. I actually saw one wrestler score a takedown and literally do nothing else but run away from all his opponents for the rest of the match. It baffles me that the same people who complain about guard pulling will spend the rest of the match running away from his opponent. And I don't mean going side to side and trying to get an angle. I mean literally turning around and running away from the opponent.
If you don't like guard pullers, then how about you just learn how to pass guard, because then it won't be a problem anymore. I mean, dude, you're in a Jiu-Jitsu match. Passing guard is one of the defining characteristics of Jiu-Jitsu. I mean, I don't go to wrestling or judo competitions, pull guard, and then complain that they're forcing me to do all those takedowns. If you just want to do a takedown competition, then just wrestle or do judo."
I was coaching the sparring class for a change and guess what not one from one month to 18 months students didn't pull guard.
Yes reading my words it was confusing. I ment. I was coaching the sparring class the other day. And it has been awhile since I have coached. I have been recovering from a major health issue where I spent a month in the hospital and didn't walk for 2 weeks. So coaching was something I haven't done much. And evidently my assistant coaches have been carrying on my coaching stye. It was refreshing that my students still go for the take downs.
